The following is part 1 of a rather controversial documentary called Zeitgeist. What are your thoughts (please watch the whole thing before you post).

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeZB2EsPqGE

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmzailhVl-U&feature=related

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6UdQxt7b24&feature=related

Rest assured that the video is accurate and well scourced. A large list of scources superimposed over the script can be found here
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/transcript

I am yet to find any sort of argument against the documentary, so i am very interested in your replies. The ideas presented have created quite a disturbance within me and I think others' veiwpoints may help to quell it.

I've seen this argument in multiple pieces before, but never put together and documented to this extent.

It is in my opinion one of the strongest arguments against a literal Christianity that can be presented. The similarities between the Judeo-Christian tales and previous ones from other cultures simply boggles the mind. The parallels are nearly infinite and the differences are miniscule.

Precisely, I have read of the “pagan” origins of Christianity before and of the early manipulations of the bible, but none of the texts set out to disprove the existence of Jesus like this documentary did. For this reason I issue a warning to those who are not strong in their faith to avoid watching the documentary at this time. I have further researched arguments for and against the ideas portrayed in the video (as well as others) and, from a logical and philosophical standpoint; the prospects for Christianity look very grim indeed. This information that has been brought to light has cut the Achilles heel of my faith, as I am more concerned with finding truth rather than making excuses for what I believe. Nonetheless, I won’t discard it so easily, I’ll give myself a month or so to find closure and follow whichever path that seems to lead me out of this platonic cave.

I had the same dilemma at an earlier point in my life. Giving up on faith is not easy, but when one is more concerned with finding truth, no matter what it is, and runs into information of this nature, he hits a stumbling block.

It is at that point that one must decide how important being intellectually honest with oneself truly is.

If you need to talk to someone who has been down that road and given up on faith, don't hesitate to private message me.

Yep, talk about major philisophical nausea. I thank you for your offer and will most likley take you up on it at some point, but fist I'd like to hear a few other perspectives.

Hello DeCartes

I would like to offer my perspective on this. Although I have to watch my download usage, I thought its worth downloading for your sake, to find out why you are shaken in your faith, and if I can help... I will. At least in prayer for you. But practically I will need some time to review and research the material.

Please do not just give yourself one month if possible. PM me if you like, as one who has "given up on faith" and "came back to it".


Preliminary Thoughts
Real faith begins with God, the HS is necessary as we cannot have real faith by reason alone.
Real faith is grounded in truth and will bear examination.

So far I have only viewed part one, and have read that portion of the transcript at the same time:

My faith aside, as a good student, I ask myself where these statements or data came from. Are they reliable and can I verify them?

I had a quick look to see the references, here is a major source of the statements...

[S14] - Massey, Gerald.: The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ, The Book Tree, . Page 39-40

OK so I ask, who is Gerald Massey? do a little googling and got these:
1. self-taught Egyptologist and poet
2. practicing druid

I don't know about you, but those are not really good credentials for reliability.

That is all for now.... I'll keep listening and reading and thinking, and post further on this, but so far I am smelling something awful.

DesCartes you have eternity at stake, lets not put a deadline on it.

Remember that Truth loves light. GBWU

I have spent some time googling trying to verify just the statements about Horus as presented and failed to find them. If someone else can provide other sources to verify these statements please let us know.

I checked out Acharya S, and I think she belongs with Dan Brown. The fiction category. Things are looking bad.

Now I have to concentrate on what I know... the scriptures, here the one striking misinformation I saw was the three kings. No account of Jesus and his birth mention 3 kings, we can argue that kings = magi or wisemen, but you will not find 3 kings.

By these issues I am already getting the general drift that this seems to be another one of those UFO style documentary. I will keep an open mind for now though, but DesCartes I am wondering now whether you are just kidding us here. Do you really believe that this material is within the bounds of credibility?

I am seeing a bull in the paddock at this stage, and I am smelling something awful. But I haven't seen part 2 and 3 yet so lets wait....

I have spent some time googling trying to verify just the statements about Horus as presented and failed to find them. If someone else can provide other sources to verify these statements please let us know.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm
Found this relatively quickly. I’ve done my research.

I am trying not to let the sheer crackpotted-ness of the rest of the documentary affect my opinion about it. In fact, it was not so much the movie which caused me to question as did my further research.

For the record, after an amount of introspection, I have decided to maintain my faith. My outlook has definitely changed (for the better) but all is restored, for the most part.

After my short ordeal, I feel the need to take down the links to the movie I posted above and replace them with a warning. Your opinions on this?

Quote: › For the record, after an amount of introspection, I have decided to maintain my faith. My outlook has definitely changed (for the better) but all is restored, for the most part.

What led to this? I am merely curious as I was never able to put aside all the different truths I learned in order to maintain faith. I simply could not do it. I'm not capable of maintaining beliefs that contradict the evidences I obtain.

DeCartes wrote (View Post): › http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm Found this relatively quickly. I’ve done my research.

DeCartes, what you need to do is to find some corroboration. What you have there on that website is not corroboration, because if you look at the the references you will find that they are the same bunch of "crackpots". Your research technique can be improved.

If you scrutinize each point they made in that movie you will find numerous errors. Horus have 4 followers not 12 disciples, he was never depicted as having walked on water nor born of a virgin nor crucified. I don't think I want to waste more time on this garbage.Its dangerous in that it pretends to be a documentary of history I think, but actually its a fiction movie.

Here is a stepping stone towards more research if you want to do it:
http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=124&Itemid=107

Anyway I am very glad that you have kept the faith.

Blessings

Well, DeCartes, if you're going to horse around with videos which stand to hack away at your religious convictions, why not watch something more substantial and salient?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=baAg6k4c1Jg

Ha ha ha! Please take this in the most respectable way possible, but I don't think that we christians are in any place to ask for credible scorces. I have some other sources I could dig up, but I don't like the idea of possibly leading people away from god by arguing against christianity. I am still looking for info disproving the things ive reseached and will post them once i compile a rspectable list (i have plenty of free tim as of late).

To answer your question Nator, years of hardcore brainwash on my catholic grandmother's part .

[quote="DeCartes";p="45553"]...but I don't think that we christians are in any place to ask for credible sources....

...years of hardcore brainwash on my catholic grandmother's part...[/quote]

Why can't more Christians be at least this blunt (and obviously honest) about things? Ooo, ooo, I know! Because it makes the entire religion look man-made?

You would do well to ask what it means when even the adherents of a religion admit to these sorts of things. How would you feel if you had found these sorts of comments on an Islamic forum? Wouldn't you seize upon them as signs of Islam being nothing more than a grand array of smoke and mirrors? An untruth which people convince themselves of only because of a myriad of social pressures and because the long corridors of its tenets are simply endless in number?

Salvation is not found in religion, if religion means ritual observances, and traditions.

Do you have faith? show it by your works (James)

What is pure religion? look after the helpless and needy, and don't be stained by worldly things. (James)

Realize that most people have adopted their beliefs through a myriad of social circumstances and not the apologetics they defend it all with. (fjell)

Understand that even the very concept of "God" as defined by Christians is internally incoherent. (fjell)