A Different Jesus! Really???

moleowner wrote (View Post): › I assume Rev2 has just overlooked my challenge. Are you still up for asking the "other lot" their views on Mary's conception.

The other "difference" that occured to me is Rev2's Jesus seems to have a lot more stamps in his passport than other flavours of Christianity.
--------------------
If Rev2's Jesus is the same as other Christians why would God say this?

Quote: › 18 My object in going to ainquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

Do any of these creeds that are an abomination in God's sight concern Jesus and thus result in a different Jesus really?

--------------------------
On the 12/3/12Rev2 said this

Quote: › A second more encompassing test of prophecy is that which was proposed by the prophet Jeremiah, who said that “when when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the Lord hath truly sent him.” (Jer. 28:9) The complete fulfillment of a prophecy is the safest indication that a prophesy is true. This test is also of limited value for it requires the passage of time so that the prophesy in question can be accomplished.

Do you mind if I comment on this ?

OK Mole,

I have quoted your post and respond as follows:

I certainly have not overlooked your challenge.

Let's hear therefore from others their certain knowledge as to the corporeal or physical attributes of the Father of Jesus Christ.

Let us hear exactly how and in what manner this conception occurred and your source or sources for your interpretation.

State clearly if Mary was or was not married when she became pregnant?

State clearly if you believe we should follow God's example in our lives.

Mole, your challenge has been met and questions have been asked. The answers should be interesting....
Wink

Readers- Please make allowances for the slightly absurd situation of an Agnostic being a Christian apologist to a Mormon.

Quote: › Let's hear therefore from others their certain knowledge as to the corporeal or physical attributes of the Father of Jesus Christ.

Jesus doesn't have a corporeal or physical father. God the Father is a description to describe a relationship of parts or aspects of one whole unity.I still hold affections for "mother England" but England is not my mother.

Quote: › Let us hear exactly how and in what manner this conception occurred and your source or sources for your interpretation.

Super natural (divine) forces got Mary pregnant through some unspecified non physical miracleous method.

Quote: › State clearly if Mary was or was not married when she became pregnant?

She was not married when she conceived.

Quote: › State clearly if you believe we should follow God's example in our lives.

Not really: I have no wish to kill any Ammonites still living.

Quote: › Mole, your challenge has been met and questions have been asked. The answers should be interesting....

I'm hoping this means you have asked the "other lot" about Mary's conception and are waiting for answers from them.

Dear Mole,

Thanks for your "agnostic" private interpretation answers. I am uncertain in my understanding on wether or not you actually fully believe your own answers.

I am still patiently awaiting for the official sectarian position and answers and doctrines which answer the questions.

Quote: › Thanks for your "agnostic" private interpretation answers. I am uncertain in my understanding on wether or not you actually fully believe your own answers.

Well Yes! You are quite right I don't always believe the answers I give. Smile

But My answers about Mary and God (the father) are what I believe a Christian of the Prebyterian,Protestant Catholic,methodist etc flavour would give. Have you asked any of those flavoursome Christians these questions yet?

Let's hear therefore from other christians, their certain knowledge as to the corporeal or physical attributes of the Father of Jesus Christ.

Let us hear exactly how and in what manner this conception occurred and your source or sources for your interpretation.

State clearly if Mary was or was not married when she became pregnant?

State clearly if you believe we should follow God's example in our lives.

Dear Mole,

You seemed very concerned that I should state my understanding in response to your questions. I have thus responded.

Why do you not appear to seek as earnestly for others to clearly state their position? I have issued the challenge to others, but have received no response to my questions.

Quote: › Why do you not appear to seek as earnestly for others to clearly state their position? I have issued the challenge to others, but have received no response to my questions.

Because I am fairly certain of others views, it's your views I was after and I'm still not entirely sure of them.
But I take your point I would have thought others would have replied here. Lets hope they're not just out collecting firewood and finding timber for a stake. Very Happy

God, YHWH is His name, is the one and only uncreated being. All other beings are created.

God the Father is spirit and is invisible.

Conception was by the Holy Spirit. A miraculous act since Mary's virginity remain intact, that reads: no sexual act.

Mary was married.
Mat 1:24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife,
Mat 1:25 but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

Quote: › Mary was married.
Mat 1:24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife,
Mat 1:25 but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

Doesn't that mean that Joseph married Mary after conception but before birth?

As an after thought: how would the average man respond if his girl told him she was pregnant while he hadn't had sex with her?

In those days you would get stoned for not being a virgin at your wedding night...

Quote: › Doesn't that mean that Joseph married Mary after conception but before birth?

Actually Harrie I think you're right. Especially when you read the whole story.

Quote: › 18 This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit. 19 Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.

20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

Actually Harrie you could be wrong they were only pledged to be married
Luke 2:4&5

Quote: › 4 So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David. 5 He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child.

On thinking again you could be right Harrie if they weren't married why would Mary have to trudge all the way from Nazareth to Bethlehem 8 months pregnant. The Bethlehem saga seems to only pertain to Joseph with his lineage.

Quote: › As an after thought: how would the average man respond if his girl told him she was pregnant while he hadn't had sex with her?

Well she would have to come up with a pretty good story.
It would almost be a miracle if she got pregnant without having sex with someone else. It would probably play on my mind and give me nightmares during my sleep. Maybe I could only rationalise it in my dreams to give me some comfort. Idea

Harrie wrote (View Post): ›
Doesn't that mean that Joseph married Mary after conception but before birth?

Yes, that is as clear as day.

Harrie wrote (View Post): ›
As an after thought: how would the average man respond if his girl told him she was pregnant while he hadn't had sex with her?

It must have been a shock to both Joseph and Mary I am sure. Take into consideration the situation of the time, but both were honorable people. And Joseph, instead of nightmares as mole suggested, had a dream that left him confident and at peace.

Hi Mole!

Quote: › Actually Harrie you could be wrong they were only pledged to be married

Quote: › On thinking again you could be right Harrie if they weren't married why would Mary have to trudge all the way from Nazareth to Bethlehem 8 months pregnant. The Bethlehem saga seems to only pertain to Joseph with his lineage.

Indeed, a bit confusing... Perhaps they just pretended that it was Joseph's child to avoid difficult questions from the authorities? And where should Mary have gone to if she had to go to the birthplace of the real father? I doubt it the Romans had offices there back then?

Quote: › Well she would have to come up with a pretty good story.
It would almost be a miracle if she got pregnant without having sex with someone else. It would probably play on my mind and give me nightmares during my sleep. Maybe I could only rationalise it in my dreams to give me some comfort.

Well, all I can say that I was in a bad relationship many years ago, but I was so terribly in love that I managed to come up with all kind of rationalizations to why my girl behaved the way she did. Only some time after our relationship it occurred to me that I had been quite a fool...

Comments like the above are just so disheartening to me. One of the reasons I took a loooong break from this forum the last time. In fact I may just take another one soon.

Quote: › Comments like the above are just so disheartening to me. One of the reasons I took a loooong break from this forum the last time. In fact I may just take another one soon.

I can understand that you feel that way Oxy, but it IS the way I feel about it. To me many remarks I read here are disheartening too and I too stayed away for some time.

I understand that the miraculous birth of Jesus is a fact to you and not up for discussion, but to non-believers several aspects might be difficult to understand.
Concerning my last remark about that girlfriend: that is simply the truth; that is how human beings function: we humans have difficulties accepting ugly truths and are prone to believe a rosy lie. Realizing that is half the battle...

I will refrain from further discussion in this thread so you can go on.

Dear Oxy,

Thank you for your response.

You said:

“God, YHWH is His name, is the one and only uncreated being. All other beings are created.”

Is, according to your understanding “God, YHWH” also Jesus Christ?

You also said: “God the Father is spirit and is invisible.” Do you have scriptures that verify that “God the Father is spirit and is invisible.”

Also according to your interpretation it appears that Christ is not the son of God the Father, but in fact “the son of the Holy Ghost”, since you declare that “Conception was by the Holy Spirit.” Is this correct?

You also declared this to be “A miraculous act since Mary's virginity remain intact” (I am assuming that you mean after conception). Is that correct? If so, can you give me scriptures that so specifically state your claim?

You also said “ that reads: no sexual act.” Can you give me scripture that make that specific claim, or is this just youjr private interpretation?

And, yes, I agree that Mary was married as you stated.

“Mary was married.
Mat 1:24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife,
Mat 1:25 but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.”