Rerun I see only one book here, and it is called "The book of Life" not "A book of life .You say "Another book of life is the Lamb's book of life." I interprete this book as not being called "The Lamb's book of life",but the "Book of life" that happens to belong to the Lamb (Jesus I presume).The same book of life mentioned in the two verses I quoted from Revelation ,which doesn't appear to have had everyones name put in it.In fact I fail to see why you would think any book has had everyones name put in it.
I can see why you would deduce that everyones name should be in the book from other soteriological statements in the Bible (if you are granted everlasting life how can you be ungranted it ? etc), but I see this name blotting out thing as at best confusing and at worst a contradiction.

rerun7378 wrote (View Post): › GT, Quote: › It is heresy to say that once saved, always saved, but that'w what I believed. Then I am a heretic.

Me too.

Misionera wrote (View Post): › For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the power of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. For the earth drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. - Hebrews 6:4-8 Each of us sin each and every day. My question reguarding this passage is what exactly it means to fall away? I have heard many different things on this and I do have my own beliefs about it, but I was wanting to see what others thought reguarding this passage. Thanks!

Dear Misionera,

To correctly answer your questions, I think one should first have a clear understanding of what is meant by being:

“once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the power of the age to come”.

Let us break this down to a list of items:

1. Do you have a perfect understanding of what “once enlightened” means and consists of? Do you claim and witness that you certify and possess what constitutes “once enlightened”? To what extent and by what means were you a possessor of this divine gift?

2. To what extent have you “become partakers of the Holy Spirit”? Have you felt the influence of the Holy Spirit on occasion? Have you actually received “the gift of the Holy Ghost”, and understand the power and responsibility associated therewith?

3. To what extent have you “tasted the good word of God”?

4. Have you actually received by the power of the Holy Ghost, “the power of the age to come”? Do you know what it means to be a possessor of “the power of the age to come”?

Hi there

I'm new here but I wanted to respond to GT who posted a while ago, or anyone who may have read the thread while thinking about this topic.

GT, I was also once a backslider after 3 years, and I'm ashamed to say that I was also very illiterate in doctrine and the Bible in general. I started off reading avidly but as I got beyond some of the basics, I sort of stagnated as I didn't have a clue where to go next. Gradually, because of a combination of factors, such as laziness, immaturity, discouragement because I didn't know how to handle my warring flesh...I fell into sin. The entire time I was miserable, because I knew the truth and I wanted to go back to God...it took about 7 months of severe stress and conviction in order for that to happen. A man I'd gotten entangled with ended up becoming saved out of the chaos that happened when I told him it was wrong for me to live with him, knowing that he wouldn't have much chance to come to know Christ.

Anyway, it was a while after I'd come to repentance and restoration that I read the Scripture in Hebrews 6, and I froze. I mean, I literally felt cold all over, and panicked. The worst, most horrific fate I could imagine appeared to be my fate, upon first reading.

That was the start of my first bout of battling condemnation and one of the most potent devices of Satan.

I'm going to share with you some of the MANY portions of Scripture which have spoken the truth about this passage, that it does not mean a repentant backslider is damned. One of the posters I believe was right when they wrote that 'to renew to repentance' is in the active voice, so it has to do with human agency, meaning that a teacher cannot revive someone dull of hearing, or one who has wandered far away from the facts of the faith. That is a work of God.

Besides this, there are so many Scriptures which speak, in the Old Testament and the New Testament, of the incredible mercy of God, especially towards His people.

Psalm 51 is a wonderful thing to read; embrace it and see yourself in the heart of David!

Quote: › purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. 8 Let me hear joy and gladness; let the bones that you have broken rejoice. 9 Hide your face from my sins, and blot out all my iniquities. 10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right [2] spirit within me. 11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me. 12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit. 13 Then I will teach transgressors your ways, and sinners will return to you.... The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise. v.17

Anyone who tells you that God doesn't forgive the broken, contrite heart is a liar.

Now, the kind of understanding of Hebrews 6:4-6 which reads it as God refusing to forgive someone for falling/lapsing into sin/error is a wrong understanding, and in fact, it was one of the Scriptures used by an early heretical group in the 2nd century, to refuse restoration and forgiveness of lapsed believers. A man named Novatian was the main proponent of it, but his following was a minority. He was seen as a heretic for his harsh view.
Paul actually teaches in one of his letters that it is a device of Satan to refuse a penitent person forgiveness and reception back into the church after a fall, even a a bad one. There was a man in the Corinthian church who'd been extremely sexually immoral (1 Cor.5) and he was excommunicated, with a view to his repentance and restoration ('that his spirit may be saved). I've actually read some teachers, teaching that Paul was permanently casting this man out! Yet, in the very words of Paul, it was for this man's restoration.

In 2 Corinthians:2

Quote: › Now if anyone has caused pain, he has caused it not to me, but in some measure—not to put it too severely—to all of you. 6 For such a one, this punishment by the majority is enough, 7 so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8 So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him. 9 For this is why I wrote, that I might test you and know whether you are obedient in everything. 10 Anyone whom you forgive, I also forgive. Indeed, what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ, 11 so that we would not be outwitted by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his designs.

So, Paul appears to be referring probably to the man who was put out and then seemed to repent; here, he is saying that it is right and important to forgive the man and comfort him...so that he would not be overwhelmed with sorrow (the sense that he is unforgivable). There you have it: then Paul says that to disobey this command and not restore the man would be falling prey to a device of Satan;condemnation.

Next, Paul again confronts others in the church who had been immoral (2 Corinthians 12 and 13) and had been warned, but Paul wanted them to repent. Now, if they had committed the unforgivable sin by being immoral, then why would he extend the opportunity for repentance before he cast them out of the church fellowship?

Ask yourself this question: why would God ask us to forgive each other 70x7 upon repentance if He himself would not extend that mercy to us?

The other portions of Scripture that helped me to realise that I'd not fallen away in the sense mentioned in Hebrews 6, are in Revelation 2 and 3. Jesus addresses Christians who are backslidden! That includes some who had been lured into sexual immorality...servants of Christ. He tells them to repent. If there were no chance of that, then he would not have extended the command to repent.

Quote: › Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

Rev.3:19

GT, know that the reason you repented and came back, is because God drew you back in His grace and his love for you as a son. Don't fall for a device of Satan, whether it comes from your own delicate conscience or some false teacher. Trust in God's character, and the truth in the New Testament about backsliders. I've been there, so I know that sense of dread you feel from time to time, but it is a device of the enemy, that is all.Esau, by the way, is spoken of in an 'after life' sense. This would be like someone despising God during life, then finding it's too late once they died. Also, the 'no place of repentance' may be the changing of mind (repentance) of his father regarding the blessing which was impossible. Again, this is only spoken of in the 'afterward' sense, not meaning that one who falls once is finished, but if they despise the 'birthright' willingly, not by weakness or a snare of the enemy.

Quote: › And those Jude spoke of are condemned to the darkest part in hell

I wanted to look at this, because it's just another Scripture used by Satan as a device to make you think it's you.

Quote: › These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own sinful desires; they are loud-mouthed boasters, showing favoritism to gain advantage.

GT, these are the unrepentant people described as 'twice dead' with 'seared consciences'. Does that really sound like you? No.

Quote: › It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.

Do you really cause divisions, teaching falsely, stirring up strife in hypocrisy? I bet not.

Please, don't let fear overtake you.


I hope this helps someone...may God bless you and keep you.

Really sorry for rambling, but wanted to also mention 2 Peter. I believe the Scripture being referred to by GT has to be another conscience crusher for backsliders:

[quote]For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”[/quote]

First of all, the preceding verses give us a picture of who these people are that Peter is talking about.They are false teachers, teaching it's okay to sin away and teach others to; they are overcome/controlled by their flesh. Now, these are people who are not just entangled (like a backslider is) again, they are overcome. The fact that you repented means that you were not overcome, rather that you overcame, as Jesus exhorted those who had messed up to do in Revelation 2 and 3. Again, these verses describe people who merrily go on their way sinning, not those who lapsed, grieved over it and then repented.