After reading these forums a little I have decided I would like to hear the input from Christians across the board about something. I will describe the situation and then a little about myself, and I would like some clarification.

I have a 5 year old daughter. She is a wonderful little girl who is healthy and well adjusted and comes from a good family. She has friends, is friendly and loving, and overall just fantastic to have as a child. However, recently I was approached by a reborn Christian, whom happened to be a friend of mine's parent, and they proceeded to not only ridicule me as a person and criticize everything about me, but then turned and called my child a walking sin. Excuse me, but the last time I checked it is NEVER appropriate to speak of a child like that no matter how old they are, nor is it appropriate to speak to another adult like that. I was under the assumption that Reborn Christians were supposed to be very kind and caring. I later found out my friend's mother locked her in their house a few nights later and has some more extreme reborn Christians over to forcibly make her stay in the house while they performed an Exorcism on her because they felt she was possessed.

No thats not made up, thats the terrifying truth.

So a little about me? Why did this woman hate me and my daughter? Well, now for some info about me. I'm a single parent. My daughter was born out of wedlock, in fact her mother and I split up before she was even born. I myself am not Christian (and her mother is a high rolling atheist), however I do have my own beliefs. I believe in God, Jesus Christ, and his teachings, but not in the same sense that most people would. Many of my beliefs also stem out of Wicca also. Yes, I am a hybrid with my beliefs and its worked out fine so far. Criticize if you must but thats not what this post is about.

My question is this, is this sort of behavior typical of Reborn Christians? Are Exorcisms, brutal criticism and attacks on children common place? I am looking for some feedback to see if my existence and my daughter's existence truly warrant such unbridled hatred out of someone who claims that God saves all. I agree, God does save, and he works in ways none of us are ever going to understand. In my opinion if this woman would stop thinking God comes out of some cheaply fashioned bibles and opened her eyes and saw him in the earth around her she wouldn't have made it to her delusional point. There is something to be said for Mother Earth's embrace, that is where you will truly find God.

Thank you all for your input, I appreciate anything anyone has to offer.

For many extreme fundamentalists, yes.

For the majority who claim to be evangelical Christians, no.

As an atheist, I have had discussions with both, though discussions might be the wrong word completely.

brites999, Christians would never act like that. Or would they? Unfortunately, not all who claim the name of Christ are of Christ. I do not doubt that what you experienced has happened. I have seen some similar situations in my church building. Church history is full of misguided, zealous individuals and groups who abuse their power.

Nator and I do not always see eye to eyebut he is correct in his answers. A true Christian will understand your situation and be caring and helpful. Judging from a Christian point of view should not condemn a person but love a person in spite of whatever the person is doing. Sometimes it is hard to do that but that IS the way it should be.

Jesus said "Many will say to me Lord, Lord did we not do many things in your name?... Away from me you evildoers, I never knew you." That means what I said earlier, not all who claim Christ are from Christ.

I did see from one of your other posts that you are somewhat involved in wicca.? Correct me if I'm wrong on this. I think, biblically, this is a dangerous situation that needs attention. Think about your involvment in witchcraft. White or black, it doesn't matter. The bible does not condone this practice.

rerun7378, you are indeed correct that some of my beliefs stem from Wicca. I'm not sure why you think it is a dangerous situation to put myself in though, I would like to know more of your thoughts on the matter.

I do appreciate your (and nator's) words though and saying that not all who claim to represent Christ necessarily do. It is sometimes easy to misjudge a whole group based on the unfounded actions of a bad apple or two.

brites999, the reason I belive that practicing wicca is dangerous is taken from numerous passages in the New Testament. Some are as follows: Rev 22:15, Rev 21:8, Rev 9:21, Acts 8:9, Acts 13:8, Acts 16:16, and many passages in the Old Testament. Jesus Himself told us not to go after false prophets and diviners. The God of the bible is a creator, not the created. Wicca worships nature, called Gaia. This is a false God. Wicca belives in spiritualism but it is not biblical spiritualism. This and other reasons are why I think that wicca is dangerous.

brites999, the church has a bad rap for some of it's history. Some accusations are deserving; native American slaughter, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, the crusades to name but a few. However, the message of Christ does not condone these actions. This is one of the main reasons why I particularly believe in Christ. His character is flawless. His message is clear. He does not hide His intentions. His death is so unnatural. His resurrection is (sorry nator) verified by hundreds of people so as to be very credible. His influence is felt two thousand years after His life on earth. His impact is just as great today as in days past. His teachings live on in countless lives. His compassion is felt by many. Some hate Him, they are allowed. Some like Him, they are allowed. But to those who love Him, wow! If you know Him, like I do, you can feel His very presence inside of your heart and mind. You can feel His happiness and His sorrow. His life is available to any person. To know Christ and the power of His resurrection is the most awesome thing you can experience. The love that you have for others will be magnified an infinite number of times. You cannot begin to imagine what it is like to love someone who hates you. I do not know you or your daughter, but know that Christ knows you and that means something. Do not follow doctrine but follow Christ. Ask Him into your heart and be prepared for trouble, heartache, trials and love, joy, peace, patience, kindness and faithfulness like you never imagined. I did not want anything to do with God or Jesus a few years ago; but then Christ came into my life like a whirlwind and I have been cuaght up ever since. I have good times and bad times. Troubles within and without. They all come and go, but Christ stays with me all of the time. Listen to Christ, not my rantings.

rerun7378, you mention here that Wicca focus is on Nature worship and on the same note say that God is the creator. So God and Nature would be one in the same since he created it, God and Gaia are synonymous its just a matter of what you decide you want to call them. On the same note I could say God and the Goddess are synonymous, the supreme being to which we owe our existence transcends gender therefor both would be correct. They can be everything and nothing all at the same time that is the great mystery of their power and it is that same power which created all of us and the world in which we live. God exists in everything around us there is no denying this. To think he is confined to only a world beyond ours would be close minded and foolish at best. As for what you said about spiritualism I see nothing wrong with it. Just because someone chooses to believe something a bit more new age than what was written in the bible doesn't mean they are wrong. From everything I have seen those who practice a more fanatical Biblical Spiritualism do far more harm than good to those surrounding them.

I believe it is possible to believe multiple views at once because at their core they are the same.

Its sad that there are many closed minded people. (it gives christians a bad name) People confuse righteousness with judging others. Although this woman may not mean to completely shun your daughter i'd admit that she did come accross as condensending. Its unfortunate that this situation happened but please don't let this woman be the symbolism or the face of christianity in your mind. Unlike this woman keep an open mind to christianity. This woman is NOT the face of christ and it is important that we look towards God for all guidance feedback and support. other chritians who are well versed or who have a good understanding of who god is can be a source of support advice etc. but they are not God. Most protestant christians (catholics too ... i'm pretty sure) don't pratice exorcisms. an exorcism i guess is preformed in one's soul only you must ask God for help. A minister priest etc other third party can only pray for you and intercede. It takes one's free will and God to purge their souls and lives of evil. Your daughter born out of wedlock is a gift from God every child is. She had no control ovet the situation which she was born in she is innocent. A single parent family which sounds like a pretty good one is the best you can provide for at this time and that is probably the right thing. She is by no means evil and at age five she is far from the age of accountability. She relies on you... her father to guide her and to lead her in the proper direction so it is important that you check your beliefs with the bible and GOD's will. Although I have friends who consider themselves wicca I am not very well versed in wicca's beliefs to do too much debating on the morals and fundamentals but I do know that God is the only god and the only one whom we should worship God created nature for us to enjoy and live with and off of. God put Adam in charge of the garden. Adam was to care for the garden and live in the garden. Adam named the animals and plants in the garden. shall man worship that which he is meant to have dominion over? Please answer the question I would like to know the wicca's point of view.

I pray that you seek God and the bible for your answers. He is the only true guide. And the only bulwark to rely on. If you have any other questions please post. For your sake and your daughters as well. She needs to be raised in the truth. What you teach her is her world and will guide her for the rest of her life

brites999, I am basing my knowledge on wat God has already said.
"God and Nature would be one in the same since he created it, God and Gaia are synonymous its just a matter of what you decide you want to call them." Read Romans 1 and you will see that God and nature are not synonymous. Paul writes in verse 25, that they exchanged the truth for a lie and worshiped and served created things rather than the creator.

"On the same note I could say God and the Goddess are synonymous, the supreme being to which we owe our existence transcends gender therefor both would be correct." Also, in the bible, God is referred to in the masculine all of the time. Now, that being said, I am in no way saying that women are lesser than men because, as it is written in Galatians 3:28: there is no male or female, all are one in Christ. Jesus placed a very high value on women and treated them on equal footing as men.

"God exists in everything around us there is no denying this." God is all around us, but He is not in everything. He is separate from His creation. The heavens declare His majesty. But they are not Him. God holds the world in His hands.

"As for what you said about spiritualism" I said that if your spiritualism is focused inappropriately, that can harm. Look at Acts 16:16-18, here is a good example of a wrong spirit. Read what Paul said to the spirit. Notice he said this to the spirit and not the girl.

"Just because someone chooses to believe something a bit more new age than what was written in the bible doesn't mean they are wrong." As long as God does not specifically condemn the action. There are things that people are not allowed to do and they are written in the bible. I follow what God has already written, even if may seem old and antiquated. I do not follow the old Mosaic law though. Christ set us free from that.

In 2 Thessalonians, God sends a decieving spirit because the people have delighted in wickedness and not loved the truth. Wicca is similar to that lying spirit.

Know this, I am not condemning you, I am speaking about the dangers of this particular religion as compared to Christianity. You know my thoughts about Christ. He does not inhabit the realm of wicca. If He did, He would have said so.

"From everything I have seen those who practice a more fanatical Biblical Spiritualism do far more harm than good to those surrounding them." If, by this, you mean what you said in your earlier post, I agree. If not, what do you mean.

I do not believe that you can have multiple views especially if they contradict each other. All the religions of the world contradict each other. Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No man comes to the father except through me." "You cannot serve two masters. You will hate one and love the other." Jesus was very narrow minded about this. I have to be too. I want to be too.

I am not in the business of condemning people, I just do not like even a hint of falsehood. We have rights as people but that doesn't mean everything we do is right.

Hope this helps to clarify my beliefs about wicca. As I said earlier I believe what the bible says because it has not let me down yet if ever. I might be in error on certain issues, but Christ is not, and He is where I get my beliefs.

[quote="Brites999";p="46291"]My question is this, is this sort of behavior typical of Reborn Christians? Are Exorcisms, brutal criticism and attacks on children common place? I am looking for some feedback to see if my existence and my daughter's existence truly warrant such unbridled hatred out of someone who claims that God saves all. [/quote]

Reborn, schmeborn.
If you replace 'reborn Christians', with 'people who hold strong beliefs with zero evidence' then things will become a bit clearer.
I also have the impression that you have not bothered yourself with studying the history of explicitly religious hatred and violence.
An hour or two at your local library devoted to this subject will allow you to place this psychopathic behavior in a proper historical context and it will further make you very cautious when dealing with unstable primates who think they have the creator of the universe on their speed-dial.

I am not a subtle person so take this as you will, but I would be quoting Ezekiel a-la Tarantino's Jules Winnfield if anyone spoke to my daughter like that and they would know my name is Vincent when I lay my vengeance upon them.

V.

Vincent, are you an athiest? Do you believe in evolution? Do you find that there is little if any secular evidence for the claims of the bible? Nator7821 believes these same things to a degree. However, unlike you Nator is not as crass and rude and does not live in a Tarantino fantasy world where bloodshed and vengenace are a part of life. You should read the replies of someone like Nator and see how an adult acts before spilling your bile all over these forums.

[quote="rerun7378";p="46407"]Vincent, are you an athiest? Do you believe in evolution? Do you find that there is little if any secular evidence for the claims of the bible? Nator7821 believes these same things to a degree. However, unlike you Nator is not as crass and rude and does not live in a Tarantino fantasy world where bloodshed and vengenace are a part of life. You should read the replies of someone like Nator and see how an adult acts before spilling your bile all over these forums.[/quote]

As to your questions, in order of appearance, yes, yes and yes.
Crass and rude...yes, that would be an accurate description of me.

It is ironic that you criticize 'bloodshed and vengeance', considering the gratuitous violence and retribution for imaginary crimes that are celebrated in the OT and NT.

The rest I shall take as commentary.

V.

Vincent,

"It is ironic that you criticize 'bloodshed and vengeance'," It shouldn't be. Christ did not preach this. Christ did, however, preach that God is a holy God and does not treat sin lightly.

"considering the gratuitous violence and retribution for imaginary crimes that are celebrated in the OT and NT." There is no gratuitous violence and retribution in either the OT or, especially, the NT. In the OT, the crimes of man were justly punished. Any wanton ats of violence, even by God's instrument of punishmnt were also condemned. As for the NT, show me an act of violence by a Christian.

[quote="rerun7378";p="46424"]Vincent,

"It is ironic that you criticize 'bloodshed and vengeance'," It shouldn't be. Christ did not preach this. Christ did, however, preach that God is a holy God and does not treat sin lightly.

"considering the gratuitous violence and retribution for imaginary crimes that are celebrated in the OT and NT." There is no gratuitous violence and retribution in either the OT or, especially, the NT. In the OT, the crimes of man were justly punished. Any wanton ats of violence, even by God's instrument of punishmnt were also condemned. As for the NT, show me an act of violence by a Christian.[/quote]

Hi Rerun,

Before we get on with this, can you explain to me how to properly use the quote function on this forum so I can make clear what my response is and which part is quoted ?

Thanks in advance,

V.

V,

To properly use the quote function, simply put the following at the beginning and end of what you want to quote:

Quote: ›

There's no need for all that stuff after [quote].