Welcome to The Christian Defense
The Christian Defense      

Go to bottom
Home • Forum • Check your PM • Register • Log in
Go to bottom
Calendar 
         
Board Navigation
Go to the homepageHome
Index of the forum.Forum

Display the acronyms being used by the forumAcronyms
View uploaded imagesAlbum
Check events posted in the forumCalendar
Downloads
Online help for the websiteForum Tour
Check articles uploaded to the websiteKnowledge Base
Topics that are top rated by forum usersLatest Ratings
Links CategoriesLinks
See who is online at this time.Online Users
All personal albumsPersonal Albums
News in RSS formatRSS Feed
Read the rules of this websiteRules
Members of our staffStaff
View website statisticsStatistics

Frequently Asked Questions.FAQ
Search through forums.Search Forums
Search trough downloadsSearch Downloads
Search_kb_extendSearch KB

Manage your own cookiesMy Cookies

User Info
Username:

Password:

 Remember me



I forgot my password

Don't have an account yet?
You can register for FREE


Who is Online

In total there are 6 users online :: 0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 6 Guests

Registered Users: None

[ View complete list ]

There are 0 users in chat right now.:

[ Please login to the forum to use chat ]

Most users ever online was 949 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm


Recent Topics
» Israel! Do you know?
by moleowner on Wed May 22, 2013 1:14 am

» Do Christians believe the teachings of St. Athanasius?
by Revelations Too on Fri May 17, 2013 9:39 pm

» What is the essence of justice?
by moleowner on Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:30 am

» Why is there sin?
by Revelations Too on Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:45 pm

» [ KB ] Throwing Dust in the Eyes
by Revelations Too on Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:26 pm

» Shocking as it seams
by Revelations Too on Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:12 pm

» Creation of bad in this world
by Revelations Too on Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:33 pm

» Oh Dear what happened?
by Revelations Too on Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:01 am

» Yet another Jesus return prediction
by moleowner on Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:39 pm

» Jesus Through Pagan Eyes
by Living Martyr on Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:33 am

» Please pray for me, my wife is having an affair
by Living Martyr on Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:01 pm

» What is the Bible
by Living Martyr on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:58 pm

» Evolution is the foundation of a moral worldview
by Living Martyr on Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:12 am

» Back on site!
by Living Martyr on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:54 pm

» Christianty cannot agree with the Gospel !
by moleowner on Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:16 am


Defense Supporters
New Donations
1. 10 (Donated by: Anonymous)

Heaven and Hell
 
View previous topic View printer-friendly version Search Display number of posts for each poster in this topic Export topic thread to a text file View next topic
Author Message
Guest
PostYou have posted in this forum: Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:05 pm   Post subject:  Heaven and Hell Back to top 


You know It is going to be Awesome to see Jesus open the skys to come and get his people to take them home to Glory Land! I say that it is very peaceful, quiet, and very, very Beautiful there. It would be neat to fly like the birds in the skies ( but I don't know though I am scared of heights ).... so maybe keeping my feet on the ground would be better....LOL:)
To be singing Praise's to GOD....
Hell is a Place I DO NOT want to be! Believe that GOD's son died for everyone's sins, believe, trust and have faith that GOD will see you through... LIve life to the fulliest...

Download Post  No rating  
Guest
PostYou have posted in this forum: Mon Mar 17, 2003 4:45 pm   Post subject:   Back to top 

I believe in the song I Can Only Imagine-MercyMe. All that said in that song is what keeps me going; to just think about seeing Jesus' face when I go to heaven is enough to send me to tears. Can you really imagine, when all we'll do is praise his name? Can you imagine his reaction when you stand before him? What do you think he'll say? What do you think you'll say back? I can only imagine... Wink

Download Post  No rating  
Guest
PostYou have posted in this forum: Mon Mar 17, 2003 4:53 pm   Post subject:   Back to top 

I LOVE that song!!!!!!!!! You have a good point, I am going to eat my dinner and think about that one, I will be back to answer that one. Wink

Download Post  No rating  
Guest
PostYou have posted in this forum: Mon Mar 17, 2003 5:09 pm   Post subject:   Back to top 

Well, I thought about it and the only thing that I can say is "You can only imagine" Wink

Download Post  No rating  
crystal_teardrops
121 Points

PostYou have posted in this forum: Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:54 pm   Post subject:   Back to top 

i also love that song and one can only imagine. no one on this earth truly knows what heaven will be like. all i know it will be a wonderful place filled with love. and i can't wait to finally be home with my Father.

Download Post  No rating  
Guest
PostYou have posted in this forum: Wed Mar 19, 2003 7:04 pm   Post subject:   Back to top 

Well, no I don't think anyone knows what heaven looks like but the bible tells you. Wink
I believe that Heaven will be very peaceful, full of love, and very beautiful. I can't wait either to be home with my Father. Very Happy

Download Post  No rating  
Khisanthax
TCD CEO
21110 Points

USA US New York
PostYou have posted in this forum: Wed Mar 19, 2003 8:40 pm   Post subject:   Back to top 

it's one of my all time favorite songs. It's really awesome. Okay, this wasn't much of a post but, eh

Download Post  No rating  
Guest
PostYou have posted in this forum: Thu Mar 20, 2003 8:33 am   Post subject:   Back to top 

I can only Imagine is a very uplifting, praiseing, song. I love it..........[B]

Download Post  No rating  
Emerald
107 Points

PostYou have posted in this forum: Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:08 pm   Post subject:  Hell = Hades = Grave Back to top 

I have learned from my Bible that there isn't a place called 'hell' where bad people go and burn on forever and ever....never really dying, just burning and burning.... This is an unbiblical teaching.

Sheesh... My God is kind, loving, GOOD. It's a shame that this teaching is so widespread by an apostate church that people go to church just because they are afraid of burning. And this teaching has spurned many people from even learning about what a wonderful God we have. This teaching thwarts God's loving character.

My Bible teaches me that God wants our love unconditionally. He wants us to love him only because we CHOOSE to love him. Not out of fear from some made-up 'hell'.

Hell is only the grave. When we physically die, we are dead. No breath of lie exists in our body anymore, therefore the soul no longer exists. Genesis teaches me that body + breath of life from God = Soul. I am only a soul because I have both. Without one or the other, the soul doesn't exist. That is death. And it is only permanent to those that do not accept God's gift.

Download Post  No rating  
Guest
PostYou have posted in this forum: Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:58 am   Post subject:   Back to top 

What bible do you read Emerald? I read the New International Version, and My bible tells me about Heaven and Hell.
Here are a few verse's that talk about Hell.
Mat 5:22 But I say to you, Everyone who is angry with his brother without cause shall be liable to the Judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca, shall be liable to the sanhedrin; but whoever says, Fool! shall be liable to be thrown into the fire of Hell.
Mat 5:29 But if your right eye offends you, take it out and throw it from you, for it is profitable to you that one of your members should perish and all your body not be thrown into Hell.
Mat 10:28 And you should not fear the ones killing the body, but not being able to kill the soul. But rather fear Him being able to destroy both soul and body in Hell.
Mat 23:33 Serpents! Offspring of vipers! How shall you escape the judgment of Hell?
Luk 10:15 And you, Capernaum, were you not exalted to the heaven? "To hell you will be thrust down!" Isa. 14:13, 15
Luk 12:5 But I will warn you whom you should fear; fear the One who after the killing has authority to cast into Hell; yea, I say to you, Fear that One!
Luk 16:23 And being in torments in hell, lifting up his eyes, he sees Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom.
Jam 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, the world of iniquity. So the tongue is set among our members, spotting all the body, and inflaming the course of nature, and being inflamed by Hell.

Download Post  No rating  
Emerald
107 Points

PostYou have posted in this forum: Sun Sep 21, 2003 5:21 pm   Post subject:   Back to top 

I generally read the King James version of the Bible, dear Angel.

That lake of fire is right here on planet earth according to Revelation 20:9. But please notice that this place where the wicked burn will pass away, and God will re-create the new earth in its stead. Then Revelation 21:2, 3 describe the New Jerusalem descending, and verse four says there will be no more sorrow, pain, crying, or death.

If read in context, the Bible never contradicts itself. You quote from the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus. Why? That is a parable.

Unfortunately, many modern religious teachers have isolated the story from its original context and used it as a device for scaring people. Religious "conversions" resulting from a fear of hell as it is depicted in this passage have indeed occurred, but are based on a foundation sorely in need of the strength which comes only from a genuine appreciation of God's character and a proper understanding of Scripture.


Edited for more clarity this night:

Jesus recognized the value of parables in teaching the people. He desired to stimulate their deepest thought and contemplation, and He knew if He spoke too literally, certain of His hearers would quickly forget His words. Not only that, but others, for whom certain of His parables contained stern rebuke, would be so angered by straight speaking that they would attempt to silence Him by violence. Jesus recalled the words of Isaiah 6:9 and told His disciples, "Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand." Luke 8:10. Cruden's Concordance explains: "Our Saviour in the gospels often speaks to the people in parables. He made use of them to veil the truth from those who were not willing to see it. Those who really desired to know would not rest till they had found out the meaning."

It is appropriate here to ask to whom Jesus was speaking in Luke 16:19-31. Which category of people was He dealing with? The last verse before Jesus' voice begins in this passage tells us. Verse 14 says, "And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him." Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, a class of men who were notorious all through the gospels for their refusal to deal honestly with Him and the truths He taught.

NOW, we can re-read the parable and with prayer to understand, enjoy the full blessing of revelation.

I won't fortell the meaning of the parable here, for that wouldn't be any fun for you!!! Here is a start for you though.... Who was the symbolic rich man?

Let me know if you don't find the true meaning of the parable, for I would be happy to explain. Wink


Download Post  No rating  
Khisanthax
TCD CEO
21110 Points

USA US New York
PostYou have posted in this forum: Wed Sep 24, 2003 1:30 pm   Post subject:   Back to top 

I'd like to look into this more and get back to you, please check back and forth for my reply =)

Download Post  No rating  
Civis
PostYou have posted in this forum: Wed Sep 24, 2003 4:42 pm   Post subject:  Re: Hell = Hades = Grave Back to top 

Emerald wrote: › I have learned from my Bible that there isn't a place called 'hell' where bad people go and burn on forever and ever....never really dying, just burning and burning.... This is an unbiblical teaching.



That's incorrect, friend. The lake of fire is forever, and the Bible teaches this. And by the way, the story in Luke 16 is not hell, it is a portion of hades, called "torments", where Old Testament unbelievers went at the point of death. Look at the passage, it is a reference to Jews only: "Father Abraham."

You read the King James version. Have you read Mark 9:44-48?

Download Post  No rating  
Emerald
107 Points

PostYou have posted in this forum: Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:40 pm   Post subject:   Back to top 

It is worth noting that for the majority of times the word translated "hell" is used in Scripture, it literally means "the grave." In only 12 of the 54 times we read the word "hell" does the original word mean "a place of burning."

In Scripture, "for ever" is often used in conjunction with an event that has already taken place.

For instance, Hannah pledged to God that she would take her infant son Samuel to serve in the temple at Shiloh, where he would abide "for ever" (1 Samuel 1:22). No student of the Bible would take this to mean that he would remain in that temple for as long as time should last. Hannah herself interpreted the statement as meaning that Samuel would serve in the temple for "as long as he liveth" (verse 2Cool.

Jonah stated that he was in the belly of the fish "for ever" (Jonah 2:6), but we know that he endured his eerie journey beneath the sea for "three days and three nights" (Jonah 1:17).

More than 50 times the Bible uses "for ever" to mean "for as long as time lasts in that specific case." The term is used colloquially today to describe a downpour or a hot summer's afternoon (or a sermon!) that "went on forever."

The Bible tells us that "the wages of sin is" not eternal life in hellfire, but "death" (Romans 6:23), the same penalty God assured Adam and Eve would be theirs if they ate the forbidden fruit.

Ezekiel states clearly that "the soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Ezekiel 18:4), and a plethora of other Bible verses and passages endorse this position. The prophet Malachi wrote that sinners would burn up as "stubble" and would become "ashes under the soles" of the feet of the redeemed (Malachi 4:1, 3). Even the final fate of Satan is explicitly pronounced in Ezekiel 28:18, where the Bible says that the enemy of souls will be reduced to ashes upon the "earth." Compare that with Psalm 37:10 ("For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be"), Psalm 68:2 ("as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God"), and other similar verses. Soon you get a clear picture that the purpose of the fires of hell is to eradicate sin and to expunge the universe of its awful presence.

Interestingly, it was the devil who was first to suggest that sinners would not die (Genesis 3:4). A hell where sinners never perish would prove the devil right and would make God, who told Eve she would "surely die" as a result of transgression (Genesis 2:17), a liar.


Now, with that said.... I'll address Corvis' question. Yes, I have read Mark many times as I have the rest of that wonderful Word. Smile


Quote: › Mark 9:44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

9:45
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

9:46
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

9:47
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

9:48
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.



In these verses the word "hell" is translated from the Greek word "Gehenna," which is another name for the Valley of Hinnom just outside the walls of Jerusalem. There the refuse and bodies of animals were cast into an ever smoldering fire to be consumed. What might escape the flames was constantly being destroyed by maggots which fed on the dead bodies. Gehenna symbolized a place of total destruction.

Jesus taught in this verse that the fire of hell could not be quenched or put out by anyone. Isaiah said "they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame." Isaiah 47:14. Yet he hastened to say in the same verse, "there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor a fire to sit before it." So the unquenchable fire will go out after it has finished its work. Jerusalem burned with unquenchable fire (Jeremiah 17:27) but it was totally destroyed (2 Chronicles 36:19-21).

The flames and worms of Gehenna represented the total annihilation and obliteration of sin and sinners. With the fires of Gehenna burning before their eyes Jesus could not have spoken a more graphic word to the Pharisees to describe the final total destruction of sinners.

Those who cite this text to support their doctrine of the natural immortality of the soul are thrown into a real dilemma. Why? Because the fire and worms are working, not upon disembodied souls, but bodies! In Matthew 5:30 Christ said, "the whole body" would be cast into hell.

In Isaiah 66:24 the same Gehenna picture of hell is presented with the unquenchable flame and the destroying worms. But in this case the word "carcasses" is used, revealing the fact that the fire consumes dead bodies, not disembodied souls.

A story for ya'll........

Quote: › The Lumber Camp
Some years ago in a lumber camp there worked a giant of a man who was feared by all who knew him. Rumor had it that he had killed several people.

One day he summoned a fellow worker and demanded to know if the man was telling people that nobody was burning in the fires of hell.

"That's right," the co-worker answered. "That's what the Bible says."

"Can you show me where it says that?" the burly woodsman inquired, betraying a tinge of hope in his gravelly voice. He sat in rapt attention as his Christian colleague showed him text after text from the Bible proving that God is not now torturing anybody in hell and that God will not permit anyone to burn in the lake of fire any longer than necessary.

As they continued to study God's Word, the man whom others regarded as having a heart of stone dropped his face into his hands and began to weep.

"My son died 20 years ago in a bar fight," he finally explained. "I was told that he had gone straight to hell, where God was torturing him and would torture him forever. Ever since that time I've been mad with God."

That day, his heart was softened and his entire life transformed as he came to understand what the Bible really says about the end of the wicked.

Download Post  No rating  
Civis
PostYou have posted in this forum: Thu Sep 25, 2003 2:07 am   Post subject:   Back to top 

Emerald wrote: › [color=green][b]It is worth noting that for the majority of times the word translated "hell" is used in Scripture, it literally means "the grave." In only 12 of the 54 times we read the word "hell" does the original word mean "a place of burning."

[/quote]

<<<It is worth noting that for the majority of times the word translated "hell" is used in Scripture, it literally means "the grave." In only 12 of the 54 times we read the word "hell" does the original word mean "a place of burning.">>>

Okay, now give me the proof that what you say is true. You have given statistics, which may or not be true. I don?t happen to believe they are. Actually, your reply would please the so-called Jehovah?s Witnesses who say the very same things but are terribly mixed up about the Bible,

>>>In Scripture, "for ever" is often used in conjunction with an event that has already taken place.

<<<For instance, Hannah pledged to God that she would take her infant son Samuel to serve in the temple at Shiloh, where he would abide "for ever" (1 Samuel 1:22). No student of the Bible would take this to mean that he would remain in that temple for as long as time should last. Hannah herself interpreted the statement as meaning that Samuel would serve in the temple for "as long as he liveth" (verse 2 .>>>

Pardon me, but that argument seems very ridiculous to me. You are quoting from the KJV in the first place, which at times is a very poor translation which doesn?t correctly indicate the tenses of the original. But you are taking something which is irrelevant to what we are discussing and trying to argue from it. 1 Sam. 1:22 has nothing in the world to do with eternity; neither has Jonah 2:6. These are merely translations from the KJV, as well as relating to another topic.

<<<Ezekiel states clearly that "the soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Ezekiel 18:4),>>>>

An old chestnut constantly quoted by the so-called Jehovah?s Witnesses. The verse actually refers to discipline for sin in the national entity of Israel in the days of Ezekiel, not to eternal judgment.

<<<and a plethora of other Bible verses and passages endorse this position. The prophet Malachi wrote that sinners would burn up as "stubble" and would become "ashes under the soles" of the feet of the redeemed (Malachi 4:1, 3).>>>

This is a reference to the baptism of fire at the second advent of Jesus Christ:

?shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up? ? this is the baptism of fire again; ?saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.? Remember Matthew chapter 3 verse 11 ? the axe is applied to the root. Neither root nor branch means utter destruction, removal from the earth. That is the unbeliever. What happens to the believer at this time?

1. There are three Biblical passages dealing with the baptism of fire ? Matthew 3:11,12; Luke 3:16,17; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9.

2. There is an analogy in Matthew 24:36ff which does not refer to the Church. Noah began the post-diluvian civilisation; when Christ returns we have a new civilisation. So when there is a new civilisation the unbelievers are cast out and believers go into the new civilisation. Generally, just before the civilisation begins there is a total indifference to spiritual things. That is the concept in these verses. The principle is that people were so indifferent to spiritual things that there is tremendous occupation with the details of life.

3. There are some parables that describe the baptism of fire: the wheat and the tares is an example ? Matthew 13:24-43.

4. The Gentile baptism of fire is described in Matthew 25:31-46.

<<<Even the final fate of Satan is explicitly pronounced in Ezekiel 28:18, where the Bible says that the enemy of souls will be reduced to ashes upon the "earth.">>>
Nonsense! Satan is the devil. Matthew 25:46 tells us that the lake of fire was prepared for the devil and his angels. Satan is a spirit being. How can a spirit be reduced to ashes?

<<<Compare that with Psalm 37:10 ("For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be"),>>>

Yes, but again you misinterpret. ?a little while? refers to the completion of human history; ?the wicked shall not be? [literally, shall not]. That is, they shall not have any prosperity, any happiness, any success, because the lake of fire will be their lot. The ?wicked? is simply a technical word for the unbeliever, the one who has not received Jesus Christ as saviour.

<<<Psalm 68:2 ("as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God"), and other similar verses. Soon you get a clear picture that the purpose of the fires of hell is to eradicate sin and to expunge the universe of its awful presence.>>>

You are very careless with the Scriptures and are obviously fitting them to a point of view. Where in the world do you get such an interpretation?

<<<Interestingly, it was the devil who was first to suggest that sinners would not die (Genesis 3:4).>>>

Nothing to do with the topic. You are meandering all over the place. In the first place, you seem to be having comprehension problems. Where exactly in Genesis 3:4 does it say that ?sinners? would die? It doesn?t. You are dreaming. Adam and Eve were not sinners at this point. Satan was talking to them BEFORE the fall.

<<<A hell where sinners never perish would prove the devil right and would make God, who told Eve she would "surely die" as a result of transgression (Genesis 2:17), a liar.>>>

How so? You don?t say how you arrive at that conclusion, but the notion is entirely false. The literal Hebrew says, ?Dying thou shalt die.? It means that if Adam and Eve sinned they would die spiritually [dying], and then at a later date die [physically] as a result of their sin. Paul tells us in Romans that ?in Adam all die.? Adam, by his sin, plunged the entire human race into spiritual death. We are all born spiritually dead which is why we need regeneration?John 3.

>>>Now, with that said.... I'll address Corvis' question. Yes, I have read Mark many times as I have the rest of that wonderful Word. >>>

So? How do you explain that away?

<<<In these verses the word "hell" is translated from the Greek word "Gehenna," which is another name for the Valley of Hinnom just outside the walls of Jerusalem. There the refuse and bodies of animals were cast into an ever smoldering fire to be consumed. What might escape the flames was constantly being destroyed by maggots which fed on the dead bodies. Gehenna symbolized a place of total destruction. >>>
More ?Jehovah?s Witness? false doctrine! Yes, it did, and it was a picture, a type of the eternal fire. This is why Jesus used the illustration.

The lake of fire is the final destination for both fallen angels and unbelieving mankind. It is both literal and eternal. It was prepared originally for Satan and his angels. Matt 25:41. Unbelievers also go there, and there is no way out, Jn 3:18, 36; Heb 9:27. The first occupants of the lake of fire will be the beast and false prophet of the Tribulation, Rev 19:20. The devil will also be in the lake of fire, Rev 20:10. And after the Great White Throne judgment, the unbelievers of the human race will be there, Rev 20:14. Unbelievers are pulled out of the fire of Hades, judged, and cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:15, 21:8.

Hades or Sheol:

The Hebrew word SHEOL originally meant in post-Biblical Hebrew the deep parts of the sea. But both Sheol and the Greek word Hades are used to refer to anything that is subterranean and large. Therefore, they are used for the vast subterranean place of the departed dead of the human race and the abode of certain
fallen angels.

Both Sheol and Hades are mistranslated ?hell? which adds to the confusion.

HADES is used from classical times and before for the underworld and the realm of the dead.

Sheol is sometimes used for the grave, as in Gen 37:35, 42:38; 1 Sam 2:6 and other passages.

The dying are said to go to Sheol, which is not the grave, but to the underpart of the earth. This is a reference to the soul, Num 16:30; Ezek 31:15, 17.

Prior to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, all human dead went to Sheol or Hades where two compartments were designed to receive them. Old Testament believers went to Paradise or Abraham?s Bosom. Unbelievers went to Torments.

Those who are believers in the Old Testament are said to be delivered into the power of Sheol, Hos 13:14; Ps 49:16.

However, since the resurrection of Christ, Old Testament believers have all been transferred to the third heaven as a part of the triumphal procession.

The Resurrection of the Soul of Jesus Christ from Hades.

In the resurrection of Jesus Christ, two categories of divine power were used.

a. The omnipotence of God the Father sent His human spirit in heaven back to His body in the grave. Thus the Father became an agent in the resurrection, Acts 2:24; Rom 6:4; Eph 1:20; Col 2:12; 1 Thes 1:10; 1 Pet 1:21.
b. The omnipotence of God the Holy Spirit sent His soul from Hades back to His body in the grave. Thus the Holy Spirit became an agent in the resurrection, Rom 1:4, 8:11; 1 Pet 3:16.

The principle is that the power that raised Jesus Christ from the dead is now available to every Church Age believer as a member of the royal family of God. Eph 1:19-20, ?And what is the surpassing greatness of His power to us who have believed for the working of His superior power, which [superior power] He [God the Father] put into operation [made operational] by means of Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His own right hand in heavenly places.?

The same omnipotence of God will raise the Church Age believer at the Rapture of the Church. 1 Cor 6:14, ?Now God has not only raised the Lord, but He will also raise us through His power.?

a. If our soul and spirit are already in heaven, God the Father will provide our resurrection body.
b. If we are alive as a part of the Rapture generation on earth, God the Holy Spirit will provide our resurrection body.

The Resurrection of the Soul of Jesus Christ from Hades.
In the resurrection of Jesus Christ, two categories of divine power were used.

a. The omnipotence of God the Father sent His human spirit in heaven back to His body in the grave. Thus the Father became an agent in the resurrection, Acts 2:24; Rom 6:4; Eph 1:20; Col 2:12; 1 Thes 1:10; 1 Pet 1:21.
b. The omnipotence of God the Holy Spirit sent His soul from Hades back to His body in the grave. Thus the Holy Spirit became an agent in the resurrection, Rom 1:4, 8:11; 1 Pet 3:16.

The principle is that the power that raised Jesus Christ from the dead is now available to every Church Age believer as a member of the royal family of God. Eph 1:19-20, ?And what is the surpassing greatness of His power to us who have believed for the working of His superior power, which [superior power] He [God the Father] put into operation [made operational] by means of Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His own right hand in heavenly places.?

The same omnipotence of God will raise the Church Age believer at the Rapture of the Church. 1 Cor 6:14, ?Now God has not only raised the Lord, but He will also raise us through His power.?

a. If our soul and spirit are already in heaven, God the Father will provide our resurrection body.
b. If we are alive as a part of the Rapture generation on earth, God the Holy Spirit will provide our resurrection body.

Scriptural Documentation for Sheol or Hades.
1. Eph 4:9, ?(Now this doctrine that ascended, what does it imply, except that He also went down into the lower regions [Sheol or Hades] of the earth??
2. Job 11:7, ?Can you discover the depths of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty? It is as high as the heavens; what can you do? Deeper than Sheol; what can you know?? In other words, Sheol is used here for the location of all Old Testament believers.
3. Isa 14:9, ?Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come.?
4. 1 Sam 2:6, ?The Lord kills; the Lord makes alive. He brings down to Sheol and He raises up.?

The Four Compartments of Sheol or Hades.
1. Paradise is where the Old Testament believers resided after death before the resurrection of our Lord.
2. Torments is where all unbelievers reside, Lk 16:23.
3. Tartarus is where certain fallen angels, called BENI HA ELOHIM in Gen 6, reside.
4. The Abyss contains demons who transgress the boundaries of the human race.
a. The Abyss is the location of the demon king, Satan?s right hand man, called Abaddon. He will have quite a future in the Tribulation. Abaddon is mentioned once in the New Testament and nine times in the Old Testament. In Rev 9, he breaks out of this jail with the help of Satan who has now been cast out of heaven and can never return there again.
b. Demons who indwelt a man asked our Lord not to send them to the Abyss.

Paradise or Abraham?s Bosom.
1. Paradise or Abraham?s Bosom is a part of Sheol or Hades where all the Old Testament believers went immediately after death. Once departed from the body, their soul and spirit went to Paradise.

2. David wrote a thanksgiving psalm regarding his deliverance from death. In Ps 116, he states that had he died, his soul would have gone to Sheol.
a. Ps 116:1, ?I love the Lord because He hears my voice and my supplications.? God in His grace spared David, who should have died.
b. Ps 116:2, ?Because He has turned His ear to me, I will call on Him as long as I live.? This states briefly that his prayer has been answered. He is grateful that he is still alive.
c. Ps 116:3, ?The cords of death entangled me, and the terrors of Sheol came upon me. I found distress and sorrow.? He was dying miserably.
d. Ps 116:4, ?Then I called on the name of the Lord, `O Lord, I beseech You, deliver my soul.??
e. Ps 116:5, ?The Lord is gracious and righteous; our God is full of compassion.?

3. In David?s prophecy of Ps 16:10, he said, ?You will not abandon my soul to Sheol, neither will You permit Your Holy One to undergo decay.?
a. Notice that David makes a distinction between the grave where the body is located and Paradise or Abraham?s Bosom where the soul is located.
b. David is not speaking about himself, for his body has undergone decay. His soul went to Paradise after he died. David was prophesying about the soul of the humanity of Jesus Christ in Hades after His physical death.
c. No Old Testament believer could go to the third heaven until Jesus Christ had been judged for his sins on the cross. At that point, the Old Testament believers were all transferred in a triumphal procession into the presence of God in heaven.
d. Today, after the cross, when any believer dies, his soul and spirit is absent from the body and face to face with the Lord in heaven.

4. We know Ps 16:10 does not refer to David but is a prophecy referring to Jesus Christ because it is quoted by Peter in Acts 2:27. ?Because you will not abandon My soul to Hades, nor allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.? This verse is then interpreted in Acts 2:31. ?He [David] looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that He was neither abandoned to Hades nor did His flesh have time to suffer decay.? Our Lord only spent three days in Hades.5. Paul also interprets Ps 16:10 in the same way in Acts 13:35. ?Therefore, He also says in another place [Ps 16:10], `You will not allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.?? Paul explained what that meant in Acts 13:36-37. ?For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, died, and he was buried among his ancestors and he did undergo decay. But He whom God raised did not undergo decay.? This is a reference to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, with emphasis on the fact that His human soul returned to His body in the grave by the power of the Holy Spirit before His body could decay.

6. 1 Pet 3:18, ?For Christ also died once and for all, the righteous as a substitute for the unrighteous, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh but made alive by means of the Spirit.?

7. Where in Hades did the soul of our Lord go? The answer is found in Lk 23:39-43. ?And one of the criminals who was hanging there hurled insults at our Lord, saying, `Are you not the Messiah? Deliver yourself and us!? But the other criminal answered and rebuked him, saying, `Do you not respect God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we have received what we deserve for our deeds; but He has done nothing wrong.? Then he kept repeating to Jesus, ?Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.? And He
replied to him, `Today, you will be with Me in Paradise.??
a. Even all the criminals knew the message that our Lord Jesus Christ was the Messiah and the Savior.
b. Again, Paradise is the first compartment of Hades.

8. Eph 4:9, ?(Now this doctrine that He ascended, what does it imply, except that He also descended into the lower regions of
the earth?)?
a. This refers to our Lord?s human soul which went to Paradise after His physical death.
b. The soul of our Lord in physical death joined the souls of all the Old Testament believers already there, i.e., all believers who had died during the Old Testament plus all who had died during the dispensation of the Hypostatic Union, which would include Lazarus and John the Baptist.
c. In resurrection, the soul of Jesus Christ was returned to His body in the grave by the omnipotence of God the Holy Spirit.

9. The resurrection of Jesus Christ resulted in transferring all the believers in Paradise into the third heaven. Eph 4:8, ?Therefore, it [Ps 68:18] says, `When He ascended into heaven, He led a host of captives [Old Testament believers] in a triumphal procession from a state of captivity, and He gave gifts to men.?
a. No believer resided in heaven until Jesus Christ was judged for our sins and was resurrected. That is analogous or tantamount to the triumphal procession.
b. The explanation of this is given in Matt 27:51-53. ?And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom, and the earth shook, and the rocks were split, and the tombs were open, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were resuscitated. And coming out of the tombs, they entered intothe holy city and appeared to many.?
c. This passage tells us the time when all believers who had died were transferred from Paradise in Hades to the third heaven or ?New Paradise.? To show this transfer was occurring, some were permitted to come out of their tombs, take their former bodies in resuscitation, and announced it in the city.

10. Paul visited the third heaven after he was stoned to death, and he saw these believers there, 2 Cor 11:25ff.
a. On the occasion when Paul was stoned to death, he was permitted to visit the third heaven or new Paradise before he was resuscitated and returned to the earth.
b. Paul describes his experience in heaven in 2 Cor 12:2-4. ?I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago ? whether in the body, I do not know, or out of the body, I do not know; God knows ? such a person was caught up into the third heaven. I knew such a man ? whether in the body or out of the body, I do not know; God knows ? how he was caught up into Paradise, and he heard inexpressible doctrines which a person is not permitted to speak.?

(1) Fourteen years previous would have been around 57 A.D. when Paul was in Lystra.

(2) Paul?s experience here was to show that in the Church Age, we do not go to Paradise in Sheol after our death, but all believers since the resurrection of Jesus Christ go directly to heaven at the point of physical death, with the exception of the Rapture generation.

Torments.
1. Torments is the residence of all unbelievers since the beginning of time.

2. Ps 9:17, ?The unbelievers will turn to Sheol just as nations who forgot God.?

3. Why is anyone in Torments, destined to be judged at the Last Judgment? Jn 3:18, ?He who believes in Me is not judged; but He who does not believe has been judged already because he has not believed in the uniquely-born Son of God.? The only reason a person goes to Torments, later to be condemned to the Lake of Fire, is because he has rejected Jesus Christ as Savior.

4. The first resurrection is for believers only and is formed of four companies.
a. Alpha company is the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

b. Bravo company is the resurrection of the Church at the Rapture. Since rank has its privileges, the royal family is next in resurrection.
c. Charlie company is the resurrection of all OldTestament saints and Tribulational martyrs at the end of the Tribulation.
d. Delta company is the resurrection of all millennial saints at the end of the Millennium.

5. The second resurrection is for unbelievers only and occurs after the Gog and Magog Revolution at the end of the
Millennium. At that point, ?Hades will deliver up its dead.? Those dead are located in Torments. They will stand before our Lord seated on the Great White Throne.
a. The unbelievers will not be judged on the basis of their sins, because their sins were already judged on the cross, and the law of double jeopardy applies.
b. Rev 20:11-15 makes very clear the basis for their indictment. Two sets of books are opened.

(1) The Book of Life contains the names of believers only. Anyone who dies without believing in Jesus Christ has his name blotted out of this book.

(2) The Book of Works lists all an unbeliever?s good works. Yet in their totality, they all add up to ?R (relative righteousness). -R cannot have fellowship with +R (perfect divine righteousness), so they are condemned to the Lake of Fire forever.

c. The Lake of Fire was designed for the fallen angels. Man was created to resolve the angelic conflict. Those people who go the way of fallen angels, rejecting Jesus Christ, will share the Lake of Fire with fallen angels forever.

6. Lk 16:19-31 is not a parable, but is a true story. Parables never mention proper names. Furthermore, parables are always identified or explained as parables. The narrative in Lk 16:19-31 is a true story, entitled ?Dead Men Tell Tales.?

Download Post  No rating  
Display posts from previous:      
 


 Jump to:   



  View previous topic View printer-friendly version Search Display number of posts for each poster in this topic Export topic thread to a text file View next topic

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
Lo-Fi Version
Board Security

70966 Attacks blocked
Protected by phpBB Security © phpBB-Amod :: phpBB Security ©  Has Blocked 5,001 Exploit Attempts.
 @ 2007 The Integra Team
 @ 2007 phpBB Group
:: Style Integra2 © IntegraMod Team 2008 :: All times are GMT - 6 Hours ::

[Page generation time: 0.6451s (PHP: 68% | SQL: 32%) | SQL queries: 97 | GZIP disabled | Debug on]