----------------------------------- lucaspa Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:00 am ----------------------------------- So how do you know exactly what jesus taught, and why does it constantly seem to conflict with the only documents supporting his existence? You need to explain that last part: what "only documents supporting his existence"? Also, if you believe jesus, and not the bible, then why are you listening to what PAUL says IN THE BIBLE? The Bible is about God. So, I believe in God. If you're going to listen to what the apostles say in the bible, then why don't you look at 2Peter 1:20-21. That clearly states that 1: All scriptures are to be taken literally 2: All scriptures are the perfect word of god, as they were written by men inspired by the holy ghost. You seem to be reading a different Bible from me. 2 Peter 1:20-21 says nothing about a literal interpretation aor about "all scriptures". It is talking about prophecy found in scripture. "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." If you take these verses in context. The author (probably not Peter) is trying to reassure Christians. If you go back to verse 16, you see the beginning of this: "We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty." So, he's telling you that the accounts are not made up. But then the author tries a different tack for authenticity: referring to prophecy in verse 19: "And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts." IOW, not only do we have the eyewitness accounts that Jesus was divine, but Jesus fulfilled prophecy. So verses 20-21 is saying that prophecy can be relied upon. BUT, the author then attacks preachers who differ from him in verse 21: "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them–bringing swift destruction on themselves." Apparently he doesn't consider how that undermines the previous argument on the reliability of prophecy. Additionally, in the new testament jesus clearly preaches the laws of the old testament. In Mathew 5:17, he clearly states that the law of the old testament shall not be changed, and that he has not come to revise the laws of the old testament, but to fulfill them. Again, out of context. Read further down, because Jesus does revise the laws. Matthew 5:21-23: "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." IOW, Jesus expands the Law to include not only actually murdering someone, but just being angry without cause is equivalent to murder! Matthew 5:27-28 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Again, it's not just the act, but the thought that counts. Taking verses out of context is invalid, just like taking quotes out of context is invalid for any work. It is OK to take quotes as illustrative of someone's thought, but you must be honest in how you do it. Quite frankly, you aren't being honest. You are trying to tie Christianity to a literal interpretation of the Bible for your own ends instead of trying to understand what Christianity is really about. So how can you follow jesus without following what he clearly taught? What do you use to understand what jesus taught if you can't use the bible? I didn't say I couldn't use the Bible. Indeed, 2 Timothy 3:16 says that scripture is useful. I am saying that you can't misuse the Bible like you and Living Martyr are doing. You are taking only pieces that fit your preconceived agenda. You are ignoring data that contradict your position. When Jesus was asked to summarize the Law, what was his response? Hint: the Great Commandment. I told you that Jesus denied the Bible was the "perfect word of God" and gave you the chapters for that. You never contradicted that.