Capt Kirk wrote (View Post): › [1] First of all, why are you wasting your time with a catechism of Mary when Jesus Christ is the Center of the Christian Faith? [2] Granted that Mary was a virgin when she conceived Jesus by the Holy Spirit, but I have heard Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and others call her EVER-virgin! Come on now, the Bible is quite clear: Mary had other children; it even names Jesus' brothers! [3] "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"(1 Tim 2:5) "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."(Acts 4:12) [4] The Bible makes it clear that there is only one person to pray through and that person is God's only begotten Son. [5] There are no instances in the Bible where praying to, through or for dead people is acceptable. [6] If you're still a catholic you might say, "We pray with saints, not to them." When asking the dead to pray with you, you are trying to converse with the dead. "[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, [11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. [12] For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee." (Deut 1 [7] You may want to ask yourself who would want to take the focus off of the only way to salvation. Who would want you to turn to idols and dead people instead of the Lord Jesus Christ? Acts 4:12 states it plain and simple that Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation. "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Hello Captain Kirk;

1. The Catechism is not the "Catechism of Mary" but the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Only a small portion of the total Catechism addresses Mary's role in salvation history, but her role is very important, as I'm sure you would agree - being the mother of Jesus was important. Catholics believe that Jesus gave her to His Church to be its spiritual mother when he was crucified.

Quote: › [25] ... But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Mag'dalene. [26] When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son!" [27] Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!" And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home. [28] After this Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfil the scripture), "I thirst." (Jn 19:25-28.)

Quote: › [12] "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the LORD your God gives you. (Ex 20:12.)

Honoring Mary as our spiritual mother takes nothing away from Jesus. To state such a conclusion is contrary to the Commandments that Jesus enjoined us to keep.

2. Mary was "ever-virgin" as both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches agree. Your reference to the "brethren of Jesus" is a misunderstanding of the translation. "Brethren" refers to family relations, not only to brothers and sisters. Also, consider the context in which the "brethren" of Jesus scold him. If Jesus is the first-born, as you concede, then his younger brothers - assuming they existed - would not be in a position to question his authority, or belittle him as was written in the NT. It just was not done in that time and culture. Also, consider the fact that Jesus gave Mary his mother over to John at the crucifiction saying "behold your mother" thus placing her in John's care. If Jesus had younger brothers and/or sisters, then the job of caring from Mary would have fallen to them, not to a non-relation like John. So, your conclusion that "obviously" Jesus had brothers and sisters is not biblical.

3. & 4. The Bible does not make it clear that there is "only one person to pray through" (whatever that means). It does make it clear that the saints are to offer intercessory prayers for one another:

Quote: › [30] I appeal to you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf, [31] that I may be delivered from the unbelievers in Judea, and that my service for Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints, [32] so that by God's will I may come to you with joy and be refreshed in your company. Rm 15:30

Catholics do exactly what Paul did in Romans, when he asked the saints to pray for his safe delivery. The only distinction is that Catholics believe that saints in Heaven are no less capable of offering intercessory prayers that those saints who are still on earth. Indeed, the saints in Heaven are more alive than those of us that remain, because they are alive in the Body of Christ. If you believe that they are the "dead" then you are arguing that a part of the body of Christ is also dead. That is not biblical, it is contrary to the good news of salvation.

5. & 6. Catholics do not engage in necromancy. We are not trying to summon up the spirits of the fallen saints to gain some sort of insight or prognostication, as is condemned by God in Deuteronomy. If you think that Catholics expect to hear a verbal response from a Saint to which they ask intercession, then you're seriously misled about Catholic doctrine. There is no two-way verbal communication with Heaven, unless God wills it. Also, there appears from the NT to be no prohibition against speaking with the Saints if that is God's will. Consider the fact that Jesus himself spoke with Moses and Elijah at the transfiguration. So, really, the whole necromancy argument is just off target if not simplistic.

7. Wow! You really convince me here with your snide little comments about "someone" drawing people's attention away from Jesus. Hmm. Who could it possibly be ... SATAN! Really, who are you, the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live?

Catholics and Protestants agree that Jesus is the one Mediator and the one Way to salvation. Mary always has and always will point to that Way. She remains totally devoted to God, as she has from the beginning. She is a perfect example of discipleship.

Your misunderstanding of Marian doctrine is setting up Mary in competition with Jesus when her role is that of helping people to find Jesus. I really do grow weary when I consistently confront people that attack a "straw man" that they wrongly conclude to be Catholic Marian doctrine. Study what the Catholic Church really teaches about Mary before you start preaching to Catholics about how wrong we are.

I am a former Catholic. I grew up learning all about the "Teachings of the Catholic Church". Now the point was made that Catholics pray to Mary for her to pray to God on our behalf. I have a problem with that. According to the NKJV and I believe the catholic Bible, the following passages state thus:

1 Timothy 2:5 [b[b]]"For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus."[/b]

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, [b]"I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."[/b]

Matthew 6:9-13 [b]The Lord's Prayer[/b]

Luke 11:2-4 [b]The Lord's Prayer[/b]

Here is my point. Jesus is the only Mediator between the Father and man, not Mary. You pray to God the Father through Jesus Christ. If you can show me in the New Testament any command of God to do so, please let me know. If not, then this is a doctrine of man which Christ spoke out against.

Jesus only taught one prayer, the Lord's Prayer. This is documented in the above scripture. The Catholic Church says that Mary gave us the rosary and told us to pray it. The Catholic Church came up with the "Hail Mary". This is not contained in the New testament either. To pray to Mary or any being other than God the Father is blasphemous. To use Mary or any Catholic Saint in place of Jesus as the Mediator is blasphemous. And, to confess our sins to a priest instead of one another (James 5:16) and asking God to forgive our sins is blasphemous.

I know this may seem harsh, but it is fact, verified in the Bible. Either the Bible speaks for God as the very Word of God or the doctrine of man does.

Peace!

[quote="DeusVult";p="26807"]The Peace of Christ Be With You All;

Christians, I noticed several posts from members who asserted that Catholics worship the Virgin Mary.

I'd like to try to set the record straight on that assertion. It is false. Catholics only give worship to the same triune God that the mainline Protestant sects recognize - I.e. God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. That's it. No more, no less.

The confusion over Mary comes from the Catholic Tradition of honoring the saints of the Church who are now in Heaven, enjoying the full communion with God.
Charity,[/quote]
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Hello!
Please explain to me why, when Pope John Paul passt away there was an "M" on his coffin? I would think that if I am about to meet my Maker, who is God, I would not be thinking about anybody but getting to see Jesus Christ. Why on earth did the Catholic Church put a "M" on Pope John Paul's coffin? To me - that is extremely strange. Saying that the Catholic Church does NOT worship Mary in light of that 'M' on the coffin of a Pope is even stranger.
-
Please enlighten me

Because of Christ

[quote="DeusVult"]Prayers to Mary ask her to pray to God on our behalf[/quote]
1 Tomothy 2:5-6
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Hello I am a Catholic theology student. My university and its programs are specifically accredited by the Vatican to ensure orthodoxy in teaching. When I graduate I will be teaching adults and seminarians who in turn will teach their parishioners. I thought I would add that for the record Catholics worship no one but God alone. Mary is given honor and veneration but not worship. If there are any questions please feel free to ask me personally. I would love to do a one on one discussion with anybody about this. I just took a great coarse in Mariology from my school.

Thank you and God bless you all!

In Jesus through Mary,
Athanasias

So then, is what DeusVult said untrue?
"Prayers to Mary ask her to pray to God on our behalf"

BUT, IF it's true then what, praytell do you do with Scripture?
1 Tomothy 2:5-6
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.