I'd like to ask two questions about Jude 14-15. (Quoted from the RSV)

Quote: › 14 It was of these [apostates] also that Enoch in the seventh generation from Adam prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with his holy myriads, 15 to execute judgement on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness which they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

1. The passage is distinct about the origin of the quote: Enoch. Did Enoch in fact say what is quoted?

2. What is the source of this quote?

Please make note: I know what the source is, and I do not intend to argue that the source should be included in the Bible.

[Edited: Spelling]

Chris wrote (View Post): › I'd like to ask two questions about Jude 14-15. (Quoted from the RSV) Quote: › 14 It was of these [apostates] also that Enoch in the seventh generation from Adam prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with his holy myriads, 15 to execute judgement on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness which they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him." 1. The passage is distinct about the origin of the quote: Enoch. Did Enoch in fact say what is quoted? 2. What is the source of this quote? Please make note: I know what the source is, and I do not intend to argue that the source should be included in the Bible. [Edited: Spelling]

Do you have any reason or evidence to doubt or disbelieve that Enoch thus so spake?

I should also be self evident that there were extant in Jude’s day other sacred scriptures that were either lost, stolen, unavailable, kept secret or ignored at the later time when the scriptures were compiled into what we today call the Bible.

Perhaps you with a more extensive review of the book of Jude, better answer yourself this and the other things which Jude, the brother of James speaks of.

For example: Jude 6 “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”

Can you, Chris, clearly identify who these angels were, who kept not their first estate?

What is the fate of the second estate of those “unfaithful” angels?

Next, can you clearly identify on the other hand, who the angels were that indeed did keep their first estate?

Also can you clearly identify what was and is the second estate of those “faithful” angels?

As you take into consideration the following: Jude 14-16 “And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.”

Can you identify with clarity who the ten thousands of the saints are?

Can you identify with clarity who the “murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.”, are?

Also consider the following: Jude 17-19 “But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.”

Can you clearly identify who these latter day mockers are?

Revelations Too wrote (View Post): › Do you have any reason or evidence to doubt or disbelieve that Enoch thus so spake? I should also be self evident that there were extant in Jude’s day other sacred scriptures that were either lost, stolen, unavailable, kept secret or ignored at the later time when the scriptures were compiled into what we today call the Bible.

Yes, I do have reason to doubt the quote is Enoch's. The quote matches a passage from The Book of Enoch, which is not considered scripture by later Christians. The book is thought to have been written before Christ, but after the Old Testament was written. This is obviously much later than when Enoch is said to have lived.

My main question still stands. Did Enoch really say this?

Revelations Too wrote (View Post): › Perhaps you with a more extensive review of the book of Jude, better answer yourself this and the other things which Jude, the brother of James speaks of. For example: Jude 6 “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.” Can you, Chris, clearly identify who these angels were, who kept not their first estate? What is the fate of the second estate of those “unfaithful” angels? Next, can you clearly identify on the other hand, who the angels were that indeed did keep their first estate? Also can you clearly identify what was and is the second estate of those “faithful” angels? As you take into consideration the following: Jude 14-16 “And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lordcometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouthspeaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.” Can you identify with clarity who the ten thousands of the saints are? Can you identify with clarity who the “murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.”, are? Also consider the following: Jude 17-19 “But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.” Can you clearly identify who these latter day mockers are?

With all respect, I fail to see how studying the rest of Jude will answer my questions. Such a study might help understand why Jude quoted it, but I have no interest in this at the moment. Unless you can explain to me how this would help, please, let us stay on subject.

Dear Chris,

If you or I or anyone else should for example, quote from
Genesis or Exodus or Isaiah 4 or 5 thousand years later, does that in any way make the original false?

You are making an assumption that this quote from Enoch found in the book of Jude, was derived or quoted from the "book of Enoch".

Do you have verified proof that this is the case?

Do you have verified proof that this was not a quote from the original writings of Enoch?

If you have verified evidence, then please come forward and present it for our edification.

If not, then your assumptions in this matter are purely speculative in nature.